Interview: Mark Cerny (2004-03-12) by IGN

This is an unaltered copy of an interview of Mark Cerny, for use as a primary source on Sega Retro. Please do not edit the contents below. Language: English Original source: IGN

Most people playing games today hardly know the difference between the publisher and the developer, let alone the name of the producer, director or the designer. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't. It means that videogames are well, videogames, and most people look at them as entertainment. But shouldn't people know the teams of hard-working people who slavishly work away to make these new forms of entertainment, art, and interactivity?

If there is one name the casual gamer should know by now, it's Mark Cerny, a prolific mind in the game industry for more than 12 years now. Cerny is certainly an interesting man to know. The highly intelligent, mild-mannered designer/programmer/consultant and collaborator, has amassed an incredible resume during the last 10-plus years, working on games from nearly every aspect and position. It's not just the number of games he's worked on, but the quality and success of them.

His quiver includes work on solid games to major blockbusters Marble Madness and Major Havor for the Atari; Shanghi (Sega Master System), Kid Chameleon and Sonic The Hedgehog 2 for Sega Genesis; and Distruptor, Crash Bandicoot, Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back, Crash Bandicoot Warped, Crash Bash, Spyro the Dragon, and Spyro 2:Ripto's Rage for PlayStation. In this generation of games, he's collaborated with Naughty Dog on Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy and Jak II, and with Insomniac Games on Ratchet and Clank and Ratchet 2: Going Commando.

At the end of March, the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) will recognize Mark Cerny for his lifelong contribution to the video game industry, giving him the Lifetime Achievement Award during the 2004 Game Developers Conference (GDC) in San Jose, Calif. We spoke with Cerny about his career and asked him about game design, getting a job in the industry and the collaborative process.

IGN: What got you into the creating games in the first place? What was your inspiration at such a young age to make games?

Mark Cerny: When I was in college, I had two hobbies - programming and playing arcade games. At some point I realized that I could turn these two into a job, and started looking around for a video game company that would hire a very young programmer! I ended up joining Atari when I was just 17.

IGN: What were some of first favorite games when you started playing PC and video games?

Mark: This was during the Golden Age of arcade games, so my favorite games were the classics: Asteroids, Missile Command, Centipede, Defender, Battlezone, and so on.

IGN: You have had numerous kinds of jobs throughout your impressive career. Would you describe to us what it was like to transition from one distinct job to another? What was the transition like from programmer and designer to your job at Universal, for instance? What was it like to work in Japanese development compared to an American studio?

Mark: When I began in games over 20 years ago, we didn't have defined roles. As programmers, we were also expected to be designers and sometimes even artists. Team leaders, too, of a team of typically one! During my career, I've held on to that flexibility, and regardless of what my business cards say, I have been simply either a programmer, a designer, or a producer throughout the years.

Working in a Japanese studio was quite a bit different from an American studio, and I don't just mean the language. I spent a few years in Tokyo at Sega's headquarters offices, when they were a plucky upstart hardware manufacturer trying to challenge Nintendo's domination of the business. Essentially all of the Sega Master System software was being created by Sega, by a total staff of 50 of so in one room, and the biggest issue for us was the number of games that we could make, not the quality of the games. By the way, Yuji Naka [recipient of the 2002 Lifetime Achievement Award] was in that room with me, and Yu Suzuki was just two floors away, so it was a pretty cool place!

IGN: In your opinion, what have been some of your biggest successes thus far? Why?

Mark: Crash Bandicoot 2 and Ratchet and Clank were both challenging, rewarding projects for me. In Crash 2, we codified and systematized what we had done by intuition in Crash 1, and took the series to a new level. In Ratchet and Clank, we needed to create a framework that would support non-linear, story-driven gameplay, as well as a tremendous number of gadgets and weapons. Both projects had a very difficult initial three to six months, and both were ultimately great successes.

IGN: What do you think of the videogame industry's current state right now? Is it too big? Is it a good place for young designers to be? Is it too corporate? Given your insight over the course of your career what are some the good elements that have remained an integral part of the industry, and what changes have happened that make less attractive than before?

Mark: The industry has changed beyond recognition. When I joined Atari Games in 1982, it was an amazing place. We were all expected to be designers as well as programmers -- in fact, there were no dedicated designers! Also, the company philosophy was that each game needed to be completely original -- sequels had a very bad reputation, and were frowned on. So it was a marvelous atmosphere of creativity. But creativity does not equate to success, and from almost the moment I joined the company, it was losing money and in danger of going out of business.

Today, I think we are much better at making money, but of course we've lost that creative culture. Part of it may be that when you start out each time trying to make a unique game, most of the games will be creative successes but practical disasters. Certainly we saw that 20 years ago at Atari -- less than half of the games that we created made it to market.

IGN: Obviously it's faring well financially, but overall, the videogame industry isn't quite as open and friendly as it used to be. It seems like fewer small businesses and creative development teams have a chance to get into the business. Do you have any suggestions for creative programmers, artist and designers out there to get into the industry?

Mark: It is still pretty easy to get into the industry as an artist or a programmer; technical animators, and programmers with a good knowledge of math and physics are in short supply. It is much harder to get into the industry as a game designer or producer, as most companies are reluctant to hire anyone without experience in these positions. If you are interested in those positions, I'd suggest working for three months in the test department of an up-and-coming developer or publisher -- typically, junior designers and assistant producers are internally recruited from these departments.

IGN: You have worked close with two of the bigger platformer development houses in the Sony family, Insomniac Games and Naughty Dog -- both when you were vice president and president at Universal when you helped them get their start and afterward in this generation of games. What do you think of the current state of platformers? Do you believe the audience has dried up for them? If not, why?

Mark: Well, the one thing that never changes in the industry is that the industry never stays the same for long! Certainly the audience for platformers has not dried up, but it is proportionally much smaller than in the PlayStation and Nintendo 64 days, when five of the top 10 titles were typically platformers. There is also the question of how you define a platformer. Does it have to have a cute character? Is Prince of Persia a platformer? If so, it would seem as if platformers are doing pretty well, as Prince of Persia just won eight Interactive Achievement Awards including "Console Game of the Year."

IGN: You have distinct and well-proven opinions about game production and design. Do you think that a single production method works for all games? Or does each team work differently?

Mark: Every team is unique, certainly, and needs its own style of development. I think the importance of preproduction is universal, though! When you are trying something new, it is vital to know what you have, and how it works, before you grow your team to a hundred people and spend $10 million.

IGN: What's next for Cerny Games? What projects are you working on now? Also, what plans for you have for your company? Huge expansion? Remain small and lean? Please tell us.

Mark: Not much will change for Cerny Games; I am hoping to continue to work with Insomniac, Naughty Dog, and Sony. Unfortunately, I can't mention the projects, other than to say that I'm working on something for 2004, something for 2005, and something for 2006!

IGN: Thanks for spending the time answering our questions and our sincere congratulations on your award.

Mark: Thank you.