User:Andlabs/Uh er huh hmmm

So when did Sega start in house development of video games?

I don't know the situation with Sega/Gremlin. I don't know if anything on "Sega Blockade Hardware" had anything to do with Sega at all.

The VIC Dual — where did the VIC come from? PCB shots? Promotion only called it DUAL. VIC Tokai? They started around the time the earliest VIC Dual games came out, and those were all Gremlin too. VIC Tokai's games with Seibu lease were done dba Graphic Techno EW

http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Interview:Shouichi_Yoshikawa

VIC Tokai and Seibu Lease worked together since the days of the Famicom. I think it was Aigiina no Yogen [FC] where the VIC Tokai name was first used. Before that, Graphic Techno EW was used. I believe that Sega's Calorie-kun [vs. Moguranian, AC] was released with the Graphic Techno EW name.

Aigiina no Yogen was apparently 1986. Of course "since the days of the Famicom" could mean ... they used the mane before?

Could we use the SG-1000 games to find out when were Sega starting in house video game development? I doubt. The first three titles on the SG-1000 were N-Sub, Safari Hunt, and Borderline — and we know they were all outsourced to Compile... or one of the various companies that merged into them

• Think Soft (Bee & Flower)
• Programmers-3 (E.I.)
• Nisso (Hustle Chumy MSX)

Or one not listed here. Or they could have been Compile but after the merger and we don't know because we don't have date information (except year), though on older Compile Game History pages (before they split the pages by console) Bee & Flower was listed earliest (last), followed by the three SG-1000 games.

Zaxxon was outsourced to Ikegami Tsushiniki, most known for doing Donkey Kong for Nintendo. It has their graphic symbol in VRAM and I highly doubt it's just a coincidence... of course we (I) could do code comparisons =P (What is a coincidence? They did Congo Bongo.)

part 2

from MAME svn rev 26154 (latest bleeding edge at the time); all parent sets released before 1989 with Sega in the manufacturer name

198?	megatech.c	mt_gsocr	0	Sega	Great Soccer (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
198?	segajw.c	segajw	0	Sega	Golden Poker Series "Joker's Wild" (Rev. B)
		<TODO re-extract credits>
		maincpu ROM has credits and 1991 copyright; I'm guessing they're waiting until the driver works to actually edit information
1979	vicdual.c	headon2	0	Sega	Head On 2
		Gremlin Industries
1979	vicdual.c	invds	0	Sega	Invinco / Deep Scan
1979	vicdual.c	invho2	0	Sega	Invinco / Head On 2
1979	vicdual.c	invinco	0	Sega	Invinco
		Gremlin Industries
1979	vicdual.c	sspacaho	0	Sega	Space Attack / Head On
1979	vicdual.c	sspaceat	0	Sega	Space Attack (upright set 1)
1980	vicdual.c	carnival	0	Sega	Carnival (upright)
		Gremlin Industries
1980	vicdual.c	digger	0	Sega	Digger
		Gremlin Industries
1980	vicdual.c	nsub	0	Sega	N-Sub (upright)
1980	vicdual.c	samurai	0	Sega	Samurai
1980	vicdual.c	spacetrk	0	Sega	Space Trek (upright)
1980	vicdual.c	tranqgun	0	Sega	Tranquilizer Gun
1981	kopunch.c	kopunch	0	Sega	KO Punch
1981	segag80r.c	005	0	Sega	005
1981	segag80r.c	astrob	0	Sega	Astro Blaster (version 3)
		Gremlin Industries
1981	segag80r.c	spaceod	0	Sega	Space Odyssey (version 2)
1981	segag80v.c	spacfury	0	Sega	Space Fury (revision C)
		Gremlin Industries
1981	stactics.c	stactics	0	Sega	Space Tactics
1981	turbo.c	turbo	0	Sega	Turbo
1981	vicdual.c	brdrline	0	Sega	Borderline
1981	vicdual.c	pulsar	0	Sega	Pulsar
		Gremlin Industries
1982	pacman.c	alibaba	0	Sega	Ali Baba and 40 Thieves
1982	pengo.c	pengo	0	Sega	Pengo (set 1 rev c)
		Coreland (actually was this made while the company was called Hoei?)
1982	rallyx.c	tactcian	0	Konami (Sega license)	Tactician (set 1)
1982	segag80r.c	monsterb	0	Sega	Monster Bash
1982	segag80v.c	startrek	0	Sega	Star Trek
		Gremlin Industries/Sega Electronics (possibly as the latter; need to check ROM)
1982	segag80v.c	tacscan	0	Sega	Tac/Scan
		Gremlin Industries/Sega Electronics (possibly as the latter; need to check ROM)
1982	segag80v.c	zektor	0	Sega	Zektor (revision B)
		Gremlin Industries
1982	suprloco.c	suprloco	0	Sega	Super Locomotive (Rev.A)
1982	turbo.c	buckrog	0	Sega	Buck Rogers: Planet of Zoom
1982	turbo.c	subroc3d	0	Sega	Subroc-3D
1982	zaxxon.c	szaxxon	0	Sega	Super Zaxxon (315-5013)
1982	zaxxon.c	zaxxon	0	Sega	Zaxxon (set 1)
		Ikegami Tsushinki
1983	cclimber.c	yamato	0	Sega	Yamato (US)
		ELS
1983	champbas.c	champbas	0	Alpha Denshi Co. (Sega license)	Champion Base Ball
1983	champbas.c	champbb2	0	Alpha Denshi Co. (Sega license)	Champion Base Ball Part-2: Pair Play (set 1)
1983	marineb.c	hopprobo	0	Sega	Hopper Robo
1983	rallyx.c	commsega	0	Sega	Commando (Sega)
		ELS
1983	segag80r.c	pignewt	0	Sega	Pig Newton (version C)
1983	segag80r.c	sindbadm	0	Sega	Sindbad Mystery
1983	segald.c	astron	0	Sega	Astron Belt
1983	segald.c	galaxyr	0	Sega	Galaxy Ranger
1983	system1.c	regulus	0	Sega	Regulus (315-5033, Rev A.)
1983	system1.c	starjack	0	Sega	Star Jacker (Sega)
1983	system1.c	upndown	0	Sega	Up'n Down (315-5030)
1983	zaxxon.c	congo	0	Sega	Congo Bongo (Rev C, 2 board stack)
		Ikegami Tsushinki
1983	zaxxon.c	ixion	0	Sega	Ixion (prototype)
1983	zaxxon.c	razmataz	0	Sega	Razzmatazz
1984	appoooh.c	appoooh	0	Sanritsu / Sega	Appoooh
		Sanritsu
1984	bankp.c	bankp	0	Sanritsu / Sega	Bank Panic
		Sanritsu
1984	gpworld.c	gpworld	0	Sega	GP World
1984	sg1000a.c	chboxing	0	Sega	Champion Boxing
1984	system1.c	bullfgt	0	Coreland / Sega	Bullfight (315-5065)
		Coreland
1984	system1.c	flicky	0	Sega	Flicky (128k Version, System 2, 315-5051)
1984	system1.c	mrviking	0	Sega	Mister Viking (315-5041)
1984	system1.c	spatter	0	Sega	Spatter
1984	system1.c	swat	0	Coreland / Sega	SWAT (315-5048)
		Coreland
1984	system1.c	wmatch	0	Sega	Water Match (315-5064)
1984	zaxxon.c	futspy	0	Sega	Future Spy (315-5061)
1985	kyugo.c	flashgal	0	Kyugo / Sega	Flashgal (set 1)
1985	kyugo.c	repulse	0	Crux / Sega	Repulse
1985	segae.c	hangonjr	0	Sega	Hang-On Jr.
1985	segahang.c	hangon	0	Sega	Hang-On (Rev A)
1985	segahang.c	sharrier	0	Sega	Space Harrier (Rev A, 8751 315-5163A)
1985	segas16a.c	mjleague	0	Sega	Major League
1985	sg1000a.c	chwrestl	0	Sega	Champion Pro Wrestling
1985	sg1000a.c	dokidoki	0	Sega	Doki Doki Penguin Land
1985	system1.c	4dwarrio	0	Coreland / Sega	4-D Warriors (315-5162)
		Coreland
1985	system1.c	choplift	0	Sega	Choplifter (8751 315-5151)
1985	system1.c	hvymetal	0	Sega	Heavy Metal (315-5135)
1985	system1.c	imsorry	0	Coreland / Sega	I'm Sorry (315-5110, US)
		Coreland
1985	system1.c	myhero	0	Coreland / Sega	My Hero (US, not encrypted)
		Coreland
1985	system1.c	pitfall2	0	Sega	Pitfall II (315-5093)
1985	system1.c	seganinj	0	Sega	Sega Ninja (315-5102)
1985	system1.c	shtngmst	0	Sega	Shooting Master (8751 315-5159)
1985	system1.c	teddybb	0	Sega	TeddyBoy Blues (315-5115, New Ver.)
1986	angelkds.c	spcpostn	0	Sega / Nasco	Space Position (Japan)
1986	appoooh.c	robowres	0	Sanritsu / Sega	Robo Wres 2001
		Sanritsu
1986	calorie.c	calorie	0	Sega	Calorie Kun vs Moguranian
1986	freekick.c	gigas	0	Sega	Gigas (MC-8123, 317-5002)
1986	kyugo.c	legend	0	Kyugo / Sega	Legend
1986	megatech.c	mt_astro	0	Sega	Astro Warrior (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1986	segae.c	ridleofp	0	Sega / Nasco	Riddle of Pythagoras (Japan)
1986	segae.c	transfrm	0	Sega	Transformer
1986	segahang.c	enduror	0	Sega	Enduro Racer (YM2151, FD1089B 317-0013A)
1986	segaorun.c	outrun	0	Sega	Out Run (sitdown/upright, Rev B)
1986	segas16a.c	afighter	0	Sega	Action Fighter (FD1089A 317-0018)
1986	segas16a.c	alexkidd	0	Sega	Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars (set 2, unprotected)
1986	segas16a.c	bodyslam	0	Sega	Body Slam (8751 317-0015)
1986	segas16a.c	fantzone	0	Sega	Fantasy Zone (Rev A, unprotected)
1986	segas16a.c	quartet	0	Sega	Quartet (Rev A, 8751 315-5194)
1986	segas16b.c	dunkshot	0	Sega	Dunk Shot (FD1089A 317-0022)
1986	system1.c	brain	0	Coreland / Sega	Brain
		Coreland
1986	system1.c	gardia	0	Coreland / Sega	Gardia (317-0006)
		Coreland
1986	system1.c	raflesia	0	Coreland / Sega	Rafflesia (315-5162)
		Coreland
1986	system1.c	wboy	0	Escape (Sega license)	Wonder Boy (set 1, 315-5177)
1987	bankp.c	combh	0	Sanritsu / Sega	Combat Hawk
		Sanritsu
1987	megatech.c	mt_aftrb	0	Sega	After Burner (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_asyn	0	Sega	Alien Syndrome (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_fz	0	Sega	Fantasy Zone (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_gfoot	0	Sega	Great Football (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_ggolf	0	Sega	Great Golf (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_orun	0	Sega	Out Run (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_parlg	0	Sega	Parlour Games (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	megatech.c	mt_shnbi	0	Sega	Shinobi (Mega-Tech, SMS based)
1987	segae.c	opaopa	0	Sega	Opa Opa (MC-8123, 317-0042)
1987	segaorun.c	shangon	0	Sega	Super Hang-On (sitdown/upright, unprotected)
1987	segas16a.c	sdi	0	Sega	SDI - Strategic Defense Initiative (Japan, old, System 16A, FD1089B 317-0027)
1987	segas16a.c	shinobi	0	Sega	Shinobi (set 6, System 16A, unprotected)
1987	segas16b.c	aliensyn	0	Sega	Alien Syndrome (set 4, System 16B, unprotected)
1987	segas16b.c	bullet	0	Sega	Bullet (FD1094 317-0041)
1987	segas16b.c	hwchamp	0	Sega	Heavyweight Champ
1987	segas16b.c	sonicbom	0	Sega	Sonic Boom (FD1094 317-0053)
1987	segas16b.c	suprleag	0	Sega	Super League (FD1094 317-0045)
1987	segas16b.c	timescan	0	Sega	Time Scanner (set 2, System 16B)
1987	segaxbd.c	aburner2	0	Sega	After Burner II
1987	segaxbd.c	thndrbld	0	Sega	Thunder Blade (upright, FD1094 317-0056)
1987	shtzone.c	shtzone	0	Sega	Shooting Zone System BIOS
1987	system1.c	blockgal	0	Sega / Vic Tokai	Block Gal (MC-8123B, 317-0029)
1987	system1.c	tokisens	0	Sega	Toki no Senshi - Chrono Soldier
1987	system1.c	wbml	0	Sega / Westone	Wonder Boy in Monster Land (Japan New Ver., MC-8123, 317-0043)
1988	angelkds.c	angelkds	0	Sega / Nasco?	Angel Kids (Japan)
1988	freekick.c	countrun	0	Nihon System (Sega license)	Counter Run (NS6201-A 1988.3)
1988	megatech.c	mt_beast	0	Sega	Altered Beast (Mega-Tech)
1988	megatech.c	mt_shar2	0	Sega	Space Harrier II (Mega-Tech)
1988	megatech.c	mt_stbld	0	Sega	Super Thunder Blade (Mega-Tech)
1988	segae.c	fantzn2	0	Sega	Fantasy Zone II - The Tears of Opa-Opa (MC-8123, 317-0057)
1988	segae.c	tetrisse	0	Sega	Tetris (Japan, System E)
1988	segas16a.c	tetris	0	Sega	Tetris (set 4, Japan, System 16A, FD1094 317-0093)
1988	segas16b.c	aceattac	0	Sega	Ace Attacker (FD1094 317-0059)
1988	segas16b.c	altbeast	0	Sega	Altered Beast (set 8, 8751 317-0078)
1988	segas16b.c	ddux	0	Sega	Dynamite Dux (set 3, World, FD1094 317-0096)
1988	segas16b.c	exctleag	0	Sega	Excite League (FD1094 317-0079)
1988	segas16b.c	passsht	0	Sega	Passing Shot (World, 2 Players, FD1094 317-0080)
1988	segas16b.c	wb3	0	Sega / Westone	Wonder Boy III - Monster Lair (set 6, World, System 16B, 8751 317-0098)
1988	segas24.c	gground	0	Sega	Gain Ground (World, 3 Players, Floppy Based, FD1094 317-0058-03d Rev A)
1988	segas24.c	hotrod	0	Sega	Hot Rod (World, 3 Players, Turbo set 1, Floppy Based)
1988	segas24.c	sspirits	0	Sega	Scramble Spirits (World, Floppy Based)
1988	segaybd.c	gforce2	0	Sega	Galaxy Force 2
1988	segaybd.c	pdrift	0	Sega	Power Drift (World, Rev A)
1988	system1.c	ufosensi	0	Sega	Ufo Senshi Yohko Chan (MC-8123, 317-0064)

Squirrel's answers

My understanding is that Sega set up a Japanese software R&D department in 1983. Just the one. It was split up into bits in 1984, and again in 1988, and AM1/AM2/AM3/AM4 etc turned up in 1990.

SG-1000 games like Girl's Garden, Flicky and Doki Doki Penguin Land are in-house Sega stuff. So definitely producing their own console games by 1984.

There was always an arcade R&D department working on things in Japan (this stretches back to 1951 or 1960 or whatever). I believe Man T.T. is explicitly mentioned on the archived AM4/Mecahtronics website, so they were definitely making discrete logic games in the 70s (this might count as a list).

The older electro-mechanical stuff is entirely's Sega's. Designed (and built?) in Japan, sold around the world through various distributors. Same with pinball.

Blockade, Comotion, Hustle and World Cup were made by Gremlin in 1976/1977. I don't think they have anything to do with Sega. In fact I imagine Gremlin stopped producing games entirely after they were bought by Sega and started doing cabinets by 1978/1979, (i.e. the ROMs are programmed in Japan, the cabinets are built in the US). Sega starts to actually get mentioned in 1979. Chances are Gremlin never made a game in colour (though hacked things like Gee Bee to display the Gremlin name).

I don't know where the VIC comes from, but I'm equally not sure it's just called "DUAL hardware" or something like that either. I think Dual was a specific type of cabinet which let you stick two games together (Invinco, Head-On, Deep Scan, Head-On 2 etc.) - the hardware itself probably doesn't have a name. The Dual cabinet was probably made by Gremlin exclusively for US audiences.

My guess is that Sega obtained licenses from various companies like Konami to distribute products (e.g. Frogger) in overseas markets - Gremlin built and marketed US cabinets on behalf of Sega. And at some point Sega crushed the Gremlin brand and started taking all the credit themselves.

-Black Squirrel (talk) 06:04, 14 November 2013 (CST)