Template talk:Bob

Categorization/Feature Icons (or: Maybe next we can shove the whole article into this template)

Random idea: The Cutting Room Floor's Bob has flags for icons that describe what the game has hidden. Maybe we can do something similar, but for games with certain features; for example, an icon for Master System games with FM support, an icon for Mega Drive games with Mega Modem support, an icon for Dreamcast games with SegaNet support? These icons can also trigger category additions (Master System Games with FM Sound, Meganet Games?) - Andlabs 23:41, 22 January 2011 (CST)

I support this, provided there's some nicer icons than on tCRF and things are a bit neater. Would be nice to have some master lists of these things too -Black Squirrel 08:53, 24 January 2011 (CST)

Hm, I don't really know about icon selection, but here's what I was thinking of as far as text-based icons though:

TEXT   DESCRIPTION
MARK III/MASTER SYSTEM:
3D     3D Glasses
FM     YM2413
MC     Card media (MyCard)
N2     Game has compatibility issues/does not work with Master System 2s (Ys) and Mega Drives (one of the card ones; I forget the name) [I do believe there are some games that don't work on original Master Systems; I have to check this]
MEGA DRIVE:
6      6-Button Controller
MM     Mega Modem (assuming Sega Meganet doesn't exist, which I'm trying to debunk now)
SM     Sega Meganet (assuming it does)
MA     Mega Anser
ST     Sega Tap
4W     EA 4-Way Play (incompatible protocols)
SM     Sega Menacer
KJ     Konami Justifier (incompatible protocols)
GT     Game Toshokan
SC     Sega Channel
MEGA CD:
BK     Backup RAM cart required/reccommended
SATURN:
MT     Multitap support
NL     Sega NetLink
BC     Backup cartridge support
FD     Floppy disk drive support
DREAMCAST:
SN     SegaNet support
VM     Plays with VMU
VG     Has games for downloading to a VMU

What do you think? On an unrelated note, what about a game's VMU/post-DC save file/iOS icons (I was thinking of doing this last one with ChuChu Rocket! and Columns Deluxe)? - Andlabs 01:53, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

Icons will make things less clear, not more, because people won't know what they mean. I would like to include icons from iOS and Windows games though. - Hivebrain 07:43, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

I don't know. Icons CAN be clear at times. - Scarred Sun 19:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

n/a

Bob

I think icons can work, but I'm not sure if they'd fit well in the bob template. I also think you'd be better off making vector versions.

this sort of thing does look as if it would be useful for something... I just don't know what -Black Squirrel 08:04, 16 December 2011 (CST)

Better or worse?

n/a

Bob

n/a

Bob

-Black Squirrel 08:13, 2 May 2011 (CDT)

It looks fine... Maybe the original developer/platform could be put on its own line? Eh.

On the subject, I think we should add support for switching between screenshots for different regions... The code is already in the LevelBobs on Sonic Retro for the Sonic 3D levels. - Andlabs 12:51, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

Two things

a) should this template include product codes? i.e. the T-xxx and the GS-xxx stuff - it seems odd not to inlcude these bits of information on the game's page when we're happy to do it with the lists.

would be even better if we could have the list pages read from bob templates, similar to how Sonic Retro does categories.

b) the current order is -publisher -developer -system

should it not be -system -publisher -developer

because in some cases we're stating who was responsible for Mega Drive ports before we've said the game was released on the Mega Drive. Just a thought. -Black Squirrel 14:01, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I've been thinking about a)too, but I'm not sure... I guess we could try to find a way to get the Bob template to grab the catalogue numbers, though IDK how that would work with Sonic Retro... I'm no MediaWiki expert so I'm not sure which extensions, if any, would help. How is Sonic Retro doing it?

For b) I'm not sure what would be the most practical ordering (though I personally like it how it is now, a different order might have some advantages or something IDK how to say this :/ ) - Andlabs 23:58, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Collating product codes automatically won't work for multiplatform games. I do agree they should be added to the bob though. - Hivebrain 21:43, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

---

Can someone explain to me how automated genre insertion is going to work? I don't quite understand and I can already see a problem when it comes to multiplatform games - Andlabs 13:04, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

Multiple genre games can be dealt with by adding a second genre category manually. Multiplatform games with different genres I hadn't thought of. I suppose the only way to do it would be by suppressing the autogenre thing with a flag and adding both categories manually. - Hivebrain 14:18, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

I've made it so if the genre starts with a "?", then genre categories won't be added automatically. I would've preferred something invisible but couldn't get it to work. - Hivebrain 14:37, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

I'd still like to know how the genre thing works. Is it something to do with the Template:Releases? I added a hook in genre2num so I can find out exactly which are the trouble spots and deal with them - Andlabs 15:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

1. genre2num (in template:bob) converts the genre to a variable (integer) by reading the first few characters. This allows it to pass the genre to other templates. The problem with this is that it only reads the first genre listed and only if the string begins with the genre.
2. num2genre (in template:releases) converts the variable back to a string, which is inserted into the name of a category by template:releases. - Hivebrain 15:29, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

Redirects

http://segaretro.org/index.php?title=Super_Battletank&redirect=no Some redirects have categories, so in this case, the Game Gear version of the game is listed under "S" while the Mega Drive under "G". I don't know if we're too bothered about this because it only happens once in a blue moon, but it's worth raising -Black Squirrel 04:40, 9 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm opposed to having categories in redirects. I think I'd rather the articles were split if they have different names. - Hivebrain 11:50, 9 May 2012 (CDT)

Port and Saturn sound

I plan to add the following two pieces of information to this bob of Saturn. This is an example. Is it OK? --Akiyama Akane (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2015 (CST)

• Description of the port of the game information by using "| originalpublishers = | originaldevelopers = | consolescompilation =".
• Description of the built-in sound / CD-DA, and the number of tracks of CD-DA by using "| sounddriver ="

Region encoding

I think it might be a good plan to specify whether a game is region locked, and/or optimised for PAL 50Hz. Any suggestions on a pretty way of achieving this?

For example, Sonic 1 isn't optimised for PAL, Sonic 2 has its music sped up but nothing else, while Sonic 3 is region locked and actually bothers(?). Chaotix even uses those extra 16 rows of pixels.

? -Black Squirrel (talk) 13:30, 21 December 2015 (CST)

We need a better plan

This task is unfinished This is a wiki task that requires more thought or peer review. An important issue that needs to be solved, which will appear at the top of Sega Retro:Todo until this message is removed.

Yeah, so, this is getting clunky.

I've been using DPL to generate some lists - e.g. "which Dreamcast games use the fishing controller", but this relies on categories and while I knew in my heart it was the wrong way to go about it, I thought I could get away with it. But then the wiki decided it was going to be exceedingly slow, and I was given time to think about what I was doing. And now I disagree with myself - we should be using cargo.

Picking a Dreamcast game at random - Pen Pen TriIceLon:

I think ideally we want to be able to automatically add this game to the following lists (each can be prefixed with "Dreamcast", e.g. do we want all the Sega-related racing games, or just the Dreamcast ones?):

• Games (done)
• Racing games (done)
• Games first released in 1998 (done)
• VMU support (kinda done)
• Jump pack support (kinda done)
• VGA support (kinda done)
• 1-4 player games
• Games published by xxx in region yyy
• Games developed by General Entertainment
• Games distributed by xxx (and yes this would be all the tedious ones like Tectoy in Brazil)
• ESRB E, ELSPA 3+ etc.
• QSound
• Sofdec

Basically any list, of say, 10 games or more should be automated.

I think the proper SQL way to do things would be to have lots of little tables rather than a big one, and when when we're doing queries, use a JOIN when the page name and console line up. In my head this is just about manageable, but I've had a long day at work so maybe my head isn't in the right place right now.

Unfortunately this gets messy when bobs are handling more than one version of a game. I honestly don't know what is a nice solution there, because neither "multiple bobs" or "multiple pages" sound particularly appealing.

I also don't know how we'd want to present some of this new data in this bob template. I think it's already getting a bit cluttered -Black Squirrel (talk) 13:45, 17 July 2018 (CDT)

So basically I reckon every row should have an associated cargo table - we might be able to build something into bobrow that is able to convert formatted text into something useful -Black Squirrel (talk) 13:52, 17 July 2018 (CDT)

Multiformat games could use something like this: Template:Company. It might simplify the process of adding things to cargo tables (I would use some combination of Template:Bob and Template:Developer, although I haven't thought about the details). - Hivebrain (talk) 21:42, 17 July 2018 (CDT)

We might need to support things like "md_jp=" - there's cases like Shadow of the Beast where extra work was done on the Japanese version.

The good news is that most of that template could then be recycled for publishers/distributors/licensors -Black Squirrel (talk) 11:39, 18 July 2018 (CDT)

Table-me-do

• Template:CompanyStore - publishers/developers/distributors/licensors. Might need a better name for older games made by one person
• Template:AccessoryStore - might want a better name
• Template:GenreStore
• Template:PlayersStore
• Template:LanguageStore - in-game languages
• Template:SoundStore - sound drivers... but I'm also thinking keeping track of Redbook audio would be useful
• Template:TechnologyStore - QSound, sofdec, TrueMotion, Windows CE etc.
• Template:SavingStore - battery back-up, passwords, VMU. I want a list of games with passwords so I can try and get them all.
• Template:PortStore - is it a SNES or an Amiga or whatever port? I feel like making a list of PlayStation -> Dreamcast conversions would be useful somehow, though it's not always clear cut
• Template:OnlineStore - does it have DLC, online multiplayer, odd things
• Template:ResolutionStore - 4:3, 16:9/anamorphic - this could be assumed for some systems
• Template:OtherStore - how many discs, secret pc content, budget labels - a default catch-all like this might not be sensible
• Other tables for unlicnesed/unreleased?
• Don't know if I want "games made in Japan" yet - maybe that can be inferred by the companies involved

I think most should start with "name" for page name, then "format" for console. Makes the SQL joins cleaner.

-Black Squirrel (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2018 (CDT)

I changed the releases table to store ratings (see Template:ReleasesRowPlus), so that one might not be needed. Each release typically has its own rating. - Hivebrain (talk) 16:41, 18 July 2018 (CDT)

originalsystem

I'm not sure I'm too keen on this field - if you take a game like Doom (32X), it was based on the Atari Jaguar version, which in turn was based on the IBM PC "original". The heirachy should be represented somehow

IBM PC → Jaguar → Sega 32X

IBM PC ► Jaguar ► Sega 32X

(or something)

but the Jaguar doesn't really count as the "original" version. There'll be more complicated examples on the wiki I'm sure.

I think the original developers/publishers fields can probably go too - original developers could merged with the "normal" developers, original publishers probably don't matter from a Sega perspective (for example, Atari published the Jaguar version of Doom - do we care?).

With a game like M-1 Abrams Battle Tank, EA would be considered the licensor, not the publisher (which in 688 Attack Sub's case at least, is how they're credited on the box). -Black Squirrel (talk) 12:43, 19 December 2018 (CST)

Tabs without screenshots

Over on NEC Retro, I've made some modifications to allow tabs to be specified without having a corresponding screenshot. This has the advantage of adding the page to Category:No title screen, which doesn't occur when Notavailable.svg is specified as the bobscreen value. Could someone with the necessary permissions copy these changes into the Sega Retro version? ccawley2011 (talk) 18:48, 31 December 2021 (EST)

Examples:

• Flicky (no screenshot)
• Columns (no screenshot)
• Sega Mega Pack (specifies placeholder)

Can we add a "riders=" field?

So if we want to be technical, there are Sega rides/experiences that lack an interactive element entirely. What if we added an alternate to "players=" that instead listed the number of riders? Something like "riders="? Nothing priority but it would be more accurate, plus it wouldn't mislead readers into thinking a certain ride has gameplay elements, etc. Just an idea. CartridgeCulture (talk) 22:35, 29 October 2022 (EDT)

Go for it -Black Squirrel (talk) 07:33, 30 October 2022 (EDT)

2023 TODO

This task is unfinished This is a wiki task that requires more thought or peer review. An important issue that needs to be solved, which will appear at the top of Sega Retro:Todo until this message is removed.

Two things

• Arcade location tests. Date and venue maybe - this can often be the "unofficial"(?) release date of a game, if the test is really successful and they don't need to change much

• Releases which are exclusive to a specific retailer. We can cope with this already, but if there's no alternative release, I'd prefer it adding a footnote than having "US (GameStop) | 20xx-xx-xx | whatever". It's not obvious from the bob alone that NFL 2K2 was only available through Dreamcast Direct (and I fear "dc_date_jp_Dreamcast Direct=" might break some templates/cargo things)

-Black Squirrel (talk) 17:54, 30 December 2022 (EST)

Unnecessary logos?

Is it really necessary to use the logo field for games that have title screens? Normally we use that field for hardware like, say, the Mega Drive or a UFO catcher, but in almost every case that the Bob is used on a game page the title screen typically has the logo included in some form (e.g. Fantasy Zone), so it makes using the logo field kind of redundant. --SorachiJirachi (talk) 21:23, 2 September 2023 (EDT)

That's my bad, I added a bunch of EM/medal game logos and I added some logos for pages like this. I went back and reverted some of the changes, but I guess I didn't catch them all. I'll try to move the remaining ones to the Artwork field now, but if I miss any, feel free to do so. Thanks for the heads up CartridgeCulture (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2023 (EDT)

Alright, just finished moving them. I left some of the discrete logic logos for the moment, not sure how we want to handle those. I'd imaging restricting logos to games without screens would be best (like EM/pinball/etc), but I can understand if we handled things on a case by case basis. Thanks again CartridgeCulture (talk) 22:14, 2 September 2023 (EDT)